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L67 swap in a 3rd gen F-body

 
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MazterDizazter
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:28 am    Post subject: L67 swap in a 3rd gen F-body Reply with quote
Hey guys, I've got an '88 Camaro with a ruined 2.8L V6 (it was ruined from the start, let's face it!) I am dying to do an L67 swap, I'm going to look at an engine from a '97 Park Avenue Ultra this weekend. I'd like to bolt it up to a 5spd manual from a 4th gen F-body if I can. I have several questions regarding this swap. First of all, since the L67 is meant to be transeversely mounted, how difficult will it be to get it to work with the steering setup in the Camaro? Will the L67 bolt directly up to a 4th gen transmission? Will I need to cut the firewall to make clearance? What type of computer will I need and how can I get the computer to work with the manual transmission/L67 combo? Will I have enough hood clearance with a cowl induction hood? Will I need to get a larger fuel pump? Will I need to upgrade the rear end gearing to handle the horsepower boost? This seems quite difficult, but nothing worthwhile was ever simple, I guess! And my FINAL question: What is the typical service life of the L67? In other words, what's the most mileage I can expect from one of these?
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brianteel
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
from what i understand you can use the 3800 mounts from the 98 camaro and firebird to mount the motor in your car. you will need to make a TB adapter to make it go off to one side. the other thing you can do is use a intercooler and M112 off the ford lightning. it will increase the power and put the TB to the side of the engine so you will not need to cut anything. For the transmission you can use the 5 spd or the auto from the 3800 camaro. should bolt right on the engine then into the car. the biggest thing is going to be wiring and getting the speedo and gauges to work. you are in luck with the engine harness from a GTP will make ti really easy to because they whole thing is located in the engine and has a seperate fuse box. You have to up grade the fuel pump because yours will not put out enough to run it.
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houlster
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just some observations from working on my own RWD swap:

The L67 has a different accessory mounting than the L36. This difference means the motor mounts from the F-body L36 will not fit the motor. The A/C compressor is in the way of the mount on the driver's side. Not sure about the passenger side. Of course, you can't use the L36 accessory mounting either because it won't drive the SC. You'll need to make custom mounts and/or custom brackets to re-arrange accessories.

You will need to adapt/lengthen lines to the power steering pump and A/C compressor to hook them up, but that's not a huge deal.

Whatever tranny bolted to the 2.8 or the L36 should bolt up to the L67 as well. Stick with an L36 tranny and you won't have to worry about flywheel/clutch/flexplate/torque converter issues.

The L67 has a rear-facing throttle body. If you have room, you can put an elbow on it. To get more room, you can relocate the TB. Bolt the elbow right to the SC housing and the TB onto the other end of the elbow. This will cut a good 5" - 6" off how far back it sticks out. For reference, the back flange of the SC body where the TB bolts to it is about even with the back of the motor where the bellhousing bolts to. With the TB on there, it *really* sticks out off the back.

I don't mean to speak for him, but I think brianteel really meant to say the Lightning SC, not the intercooler. The Lightning intercooler won't change the TB position, and it won't fit without major work anyways. It's integral to the intake manifold on the Ford, and would be exremely impractical to try and fit to the L67. You could adapt the M112 SC from the lightning though to get a more forward facing TB. It adds several inches of height to the motor and you'd need an adapter plate and to re-locate the alternator up and out to clear the M112 body.

The L67 EGR valve is on the very back of the motor, and sticks up pretty high. It could cause some serious firewall clearance issues.

The water outlet is also on the very back of the intake manifold, and the stock water neck for it points it more or less into the firewall. You'll probably need a different neck and to run a lengh of hose or pipe all the way from the back of the motor. Not sure what your engine bay looks like, but it could also mean headaches to change the t-stat later on if it's buried under a cowl.

Exhaust manifolds may need to be custom or modified. Depending on how you solve the motor mounts, the f-body manifolds may or may not fit.

None of this is insurmountable if you can do fab work, but it's not gonna just be a bolt-in like the L36 would be (or nearly so).

--Dan
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Nate Dog 5
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have an L36 in my 85 Firebird, here's some suggestions: unless you get the assuie s/c top, or some other side/fwd facing you're going to have to cut the firewall. The spacer for the tq convertor on my gp is wider thatn the space from teh back of the L36 & the bird's firewall. A possible fix could be a modified k-member to allow the engien to be placed farther forward in teh bay, but then you have handing issues.
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brianteel
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
couldnt you also make a 3" pipe bend that moves the TB to the side
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Nate Dog 5
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
you could, but there would still be a firewall clearence issue
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MazterDizazter
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, this is starting to sound like a real mess... No wonder why noone's ever done it before... I don't plan on using AC on a car with T-tops, so I will definitely delete the AC from the engine, do you think that will make it possible to use the 98+ F-body motor mounts? Otherwise, I may have to have them custom fabricated. As for the TB, this may sound like a stupid question but is it possible to install it backwards or install the intake manifold backwards? (Probably not, eh?)
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MazterDizazter
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nevermind, don't bother to dignify that last question with an answer; I didn't realize until I looked at the engine that the TB bolts right up to the SC. So that is gonna be a problem, If there's enough space in the engine bay I could probably just get a long section of mandrel-bent piping to direct it towards the front of the car, but that's a big if.
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MazterDizazter
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Okay, I know it seems like I'm doing a lot of talking here but I think Houlster made a point of getting a blower from a Mustang or Lightning. That seems to make sense, but how would I go about relocating the alternator (That alone sounds like a headache) and getting an adapter plate (Have it fabricated)?
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Nate Dog 5
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
check out this thread http://l67swap.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1320

I reused the 2.8 mounts in my ride, just had brackets fabbed up to go from block to mounts. Only used three bolts per side and didn't use the brackets that went from teh tranny to teh block. the llast issue might just be an early 3800 f-body thing, as the 98+ v6 4L60E uses a 1peice bell housing & no brackets to connect it to engine.
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95 Blazer L35
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houlster
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A/C compressor

Yes, if you're removing the A/C, then the f-body mount on the driver's side should fit fine. However, the pulley in the A/C location is required for the belt routing. You'll need to put in an idler pulley.

I do think the passenger side mount will work as-is. The f-body has the A/C compressor there, and on the l67, it's the much smaller power steering pump so it shouldn't interfere with the mount.

alternator w/ Lightning M112

The alternator needs to move up and outboard. Outboard far enough for the body of the alt to clear the SC body. Upwards far enough for the belt to stay above the water pump pulley on it's way down to the A/C compressor.


Lightning SC adapter

You get an adapter made by taking measurements and making one. I started with tracings, then measurements, then SolidWorks. My "adapter" is a bit more complicated. It is an adapter, intercooler, has EGR valve and ports and holds port water injection nozzles. It's about 2 - 3 weeks before I get mine from the machinist.

If you're doing just an adapter though, I think you could do it with some 3/4" plate, sawzall/saber saw, drill press, belt sander, die grinder, etc etc. It would be ugly, but you could do it without a mill. A large belt sander could really clean up the exterior edges and mounting faces.


throttle body


I took another look. The rear face of the SC where the TB bolts to is actually an inch or two further back than the rear of the block. In my truck, that puts it back touching the firewall almost without moving the tranny forward.

Again, it'll depend on your firewall clearance. Best you can do is to relocate the TB and bolt the intake elbow directly to the SC.

As Nate Dog mentioned, there is also the Aussie SC housing with the elbow cast-in to the SC body. That's gonna be rather expensive and impractical to get in the U.S. though.

Have you seen my Amigo thread? I'm a few months into working out these same issues.

--Dan
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